cranky frank
Last comment by LarryBaca 2 years, 4 months ago.

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So the head of the local republican party ,cranky Frank, (letters 05/01) trys to equate the labor movement marching on May 1, with the old USSR missle parades. Guess he wants us to be afraid of the labor unions,which consist of the single moms working at safeway, truck drivers,policemen, farm workers, nurses, and teachers.

Labor unions ,which got us a five day work week, workplace safety,and decent wages, are the only organizations that working men and women have to express themselves in politics.

The republican party should be afraid of labor unions as they get almost no ,money from the unions for their reelction efforts.

No ,the republicans have their hands out to the bankers, the oil companies,the drug companies, wall street and the gun lobby etc.

By the way, Frank,labor is celebrated on May 1 because this is the feast day of Saint Joseph, the patron saint of workers.


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TheSovereign commented on Tuesday, May 01, 2012 at 22:44 PM

Labor unions built this country, republicans tear it down.

LarryBaca commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 00:45 AM

added this comment to his ridiculous letter:
Frank, you don't have a clue as to what May 1st. really is, do you?
Crawl back into your paranoia cave and look it up...when you come back out, if you don't see you shadow, go back in until you can produce one. Obviously you are invisible...in more ways than one...

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 02:54 AM

Actually May first is celebrated as International Worker's Day because of the events that transpired into the Haymarket Massacre:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarke...

There was a general strike on May first 1886, stuff got kind of ugly, there was a rally on May 4th where someone ended up throwing a bomb at the police which made them shoot wildly(A vast majority of the police injured or killed that day were injured or killed by other police officer's bullets). In 1889 the Second (Socialist) International called for May first to be International Workers Day in memory of those events and they were to celebrated with worker's demonstrations and strikes. Today the struggle still carries on and May Day is still International Worker's Day.

It has nothing to do with Saint Joseph.

TheSovereign commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 03:19 AM

"cranky Frank, (letters 05/01) trys to equate the labor movement marching on May 1, with the old USSR missle parades." - Maybe Frank doesn't realize that we can't have parades with our military and their might rolling down our streets since they are continuously engaged in corporate wars around the world.

Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism.
George Washington

leo_in_lathrop commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 14:49 PM

Yes, labor unions did much good but it is a socialist environment. Being a member of CWA for 15 years and a family members/friends in Chicago of predominatly Teamsters, senority is everything. Here where I have worked for the last 10 years we have those who actually produce (less senority) and two who have 25 yrs senority and are on cruise control. One is a v.p. with the union. Other than senority the state gives the same if not better protections. The largest issue I have with the union is the portion of my 2-1/4 hours per month going to politicals. I don't care what party or ideals they represent.

B.T.W. Nightmare, St. Joseph (before unions existed) has for almost 2,000 years been considered the patron saint of workers, among other things.

Speaking of unions, I wonder if the workers in the flurry of massage parlors in Manteca are union?

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 17:17 PM

But St. Joseph has nothing to do with the current celebration that is International Worker's Day...

And it kind of is like a military parade like they used to have in the USSR. Did you see what the cops show up with? Big tank like things, all dressed up in military attire(One of them even had a assault rifle I saw) marching up and down the street following us and trying to kettle us.

canative62 commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 17:50 PM

from
holidayspot.com

Well, it is a fact that May Day, which the children do enjoy with all vibes, is not an overly prominent holiday in America. Yet, it does have a long and notable history as one of the world's principal festivals. The origin of the May Day as a day for celebration dates back to the days, even before the birth of Christ. And like many ancient festivals it too has a Pagan connection.

For the Druids of the British Isles, May 1 was the second most important holiday of the year. Because, it was when the festival of Beltane held. It was thought that the day divides the year into half. The other half was to be ended with the Samhain on November 1. Those days the May Day custom was the setting of new fire. It was one of those ancient New Year rites performed throughout the world. And the fire itself was thought to lend life to the burgeoning springtime sun. Cattle were driven through the fire to purify them. Men, with their sweethearts, passed through the smoke for seeing good luck.

Then the Romans came to occupy the British Isles. The beginning of May was a very popular feast time for the Romans. It was devoted primarily to the worship of Flora, the goddess of flowers. It was in her honor a five day celebration, called the Floralia, was held. The five day festival would start from April 28 and end on May 2. The Romans brought in the rituals of the Floralia festival in the British Isles. And gradually the rituals of the Floralia were added to those of the Beltane. And many of today's customs on the May Day bear a stark similarity with those combined traditions.

May day observance was discouraged during the Puritans. Though, it was relived when the Puritans lost power in England, it didn't have the same robust force. Gradually, it came to be regarded more as a day of joy and merriment for the kids, rather than a day of observing the ancient fertility rights.

Try to rewrite history to suit your needs... It won't work we know better its in the records.

canative62 commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 17:55 PM

from
wikipedia.com

Origins

The earliest May Day celebrations appeared in pre-Christian times, with the festival of Flora, the Roman goddess of flowers, and the Walpurgis Night celebrations of the Germanic countries. It is also associated with the Gaelic Beltane. Many pagan celebrations were abandoned or Christianized during the process of conversion in Europe. A more secular version of May Day continues to be observed in Europe and America. In this form, May Day may be best known for its tradition of dancing the maypole dance and crowning of the Queen of the May. Various Neopagan groups celebrate reconstructed (to varying degrees) versions of these customs on May 1st.

The day was a traditional summer holiday in many pre-Christian European pagan cultures. While February 1 was the first day of Spring, May 1 was the first day of summer; hence, the summer solstice on June 25 (now June 21) was Midsummer. In the Roman Catholic tradition, May is observed as Mary's month, and in these circles May Day is usually a celebration of the Blessed Virgin Mary. In this connection, in works of art, school skits, and so forth, Mary's head will often be adorned with flowers in a May crowning. Fading in popularity since the late 20th century is the giving of "May baskets," small baskets of sweets and/or flowers, usually left anonymously on neighbours' doorsteps.[2]

canative62 commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 18:02 PM

Beltane

Source Tuesday, May 01, 2012
Beltane is an ancient Celtic holiday marking the beginning of the summer season. Related to the May Day holiday, Beltane is celebrated by the lighting of bonfires and adornment of the home with flowers, and twining ribbons around a tree or pole.

ONLY in the minds of the liberal/socialists who try to rewrite history to suit them is it anything to do with workers.. Other THAN THAT THE UNIONS HIGHJACKED AN ESTABLISHED HOLIDAY FOR THEIR NEEDS..

canative62 commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 18:06 PM

from
woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk

The first day of the month of May is known as May Day. It is the time of year when warmer weather begins and flowers and trees start to blossom. It is said to be a time of love and romance. It is when people celebrate the coming of summer with lots of different customs that are expressions of joy and hope after a long winter. copyright of protectbritain.com

Traditional English May Day celebrations include Morris dancing, crowning a May Queen and dancing around a Maypole.

Maypole Dancing - a traditional dance at this time of year

The beginning of Summer

Although summer does not officially begin until June, May Day marks its beginning. May Day celebrations have been carried out in England for over 2000 years.

The Romans celebrated the festival of Flora, goddess of fruit and flowers, which marked the beginning of summer. It was held annually from April 28th to May 3rd.

May Day in Scotland

"I come from a town in Scotland called Turriff. We celebrate May day on the 1st Monday of May every year. The roads are closed off to traffic from 10am - 4pm, we have a funfair at the local park, we have lots off stalls in the town & different activities & going on throughout the day, the Local pipeband (Turriff & Disrtrict Pipeband) march round the town playing. Its a fantastic day out for all & attracts crowds of people to Turriff. "
Veronica

May Day Bank Holiday

The month of May has many traditions and celebrations. For the convenience of the general public, many May Day activities have now been moved to the new May Day holiday (from 1978) on the first Monday of the month. This Monday is a bank holiday, a day off school and work.

canative62 commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 18:27 PM

from
cpusa

this could explain why the liberal/socialits want to CLAIM May DAy for the workers

You know Unions/communists/ red square/mayday parades

About Us » The Party
.The Party
Know more about our history

Founded in 1919, the Communist Party USA has championed the struggles for democracy, labor rights, women’s equality, racial justice and peace for ninety years. The Communist Party has an unparalleled history in the progressive movement of the United States, from the struggle against Jim Crow segregation, the organizing of the industrial unions, from the canneries of California, to the sweatshops

Based on the FACTS maybe Frank is actually right ONCE AGAIN

canative62 commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 19:25 PM

Sov
Based on the above comment from cpusa
the Communists built the unions and the unions supported the Dems with 80 million campaign dollars AND the cpusa supports SOCIALISM as a step to all out communism, NOW many see the Dems as takkng this country in the wrong direction... Follow the TRAIL it leads to the wrong end...

LarryBaca commented on Wednesday, May 02, 2012 at 23:47 PM

.."Other THAN THAT THE UNIONS HIGHJACKED AN ESTABLISHED HOLIDAY FOR THEIR NEEDS.." You mean like the Christians highjacked Christmas??

canative62 commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 01:04 AM

Larry
DEal with the facts TRY to prove me wrong. Use that great brain of yours for more than personal attacks and going OFF SUBJECT...
You are really weak minded if you believe that Christmas NOT being the Actual day bothers Christians It is true Constantine actually did many things not according to God's leading,,, SO..
IT is simply to honor the Birth of Our Savior.

Actually it very unlikly anyone know the actual day of the Birth of Jesus...

BUT you will take whatever shot you can at Christian because of your HATE..

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 02:00 AM

Lol, canative, you're too funny. Yeah May Day used to be a celebration of the warmer weather coming, among other things, but what about today? Were thousands of people marching in Oakland, San Francisco, L.A., NYC, Caracas, London, Moscow, Kathmandu, etc, because of a celebration that originated with pagans? Maybe International Worker's Day hijacked May Day, I don't care though. It's not longer in celebration of some pagan religions, or some saints, it's a worker's holiday now.

But what is the funniest part is your reaction to LarryBaca showing your complete and utter hypocrisy. You sit here and try and bash us for "hijacking" May Day and when he points out that Christians also did this with Christmas you say that he is hateful. But wait a second, that's EXACTLY what YOU were just doing! So does this make you hateful? I think you're just projecting onto others, you're the one that is really full of hate. It's not really hard to tell either...

Another hilarious fact is you sit here and claim the CPUSA built the unions. Really? By your same logic from just the snippet of a paragraph that you gave the CPUSA also built democracy, equal rights for women and races, and the peace movement, in the USA. A complete fail by canative, who would have thought!

canative62 commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 11:51 AM

WRONG on so many counts
I never said cpusa built the unions THEY said it.
I said Larry is full of hate for Christians becdause of his comment HISTORY on these blogs
If you remember this was originally aboout fRANK'S LETTER AND HOW HE WAS SO WRONG ABOUT THE ORIGIN of May DAY... It turns out despite the rewriting of history by liberals there was already a May Day before 1889.
AND finally cpusa supports Socialism for this coountry because it would put them one step closer to communism in this country.
Socialism and Communism are unacceptable to the majority in this country.

TheSovereign commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 13:18 PM

Here is what I don't understand about you native, why is your form of Fascism better than C_N's version of Communism? Hitler and Mussolini hated the Communists, and it was one of their driving forces. It was one of the main reasons for Hitler's ill fated drive into Russia. Here you are, a Corporatist constantly pushing the fear of Communism just as those Fascists did.

The one obvious reason Communism failed is that there is always someone who feels entitled to more than the others, and typically they will work to be in charge. Communism didn't work that well for the leaders of China, so they switched to Corporatism.

The difference between the American system and that of Communism and Corporatism is that the last two need to be forced on the people. In its pure form they sound like they are Utopian for the average person, but if that was true, the leaders wouldn't make out.

Leo, I have been in leadership roles in the Union back in the Chicago area, and I have been on the management side over Union employees. My biggest complaint aways was that it protects those who don't want to work as hard as others, and doesn't reward those who do work hard. That is true in any system that requires a group of people to accomplish the main goal.

Looking at it from the Management side, at times it seem almost impossible to get rid of someone who does't hold up their end. You have to become a master at the game in order to remove those who are dragging things down.

From the Union employee side, there is corruption and cronyism in management, and they reward their favorites as opposed to those who actually produce on a regular basis. If you fall out of favor with your manager, you will be gone, regardless of how well you work, or the fact that you show up everyday and follow the rules.

Both sides have legitimate reasons for their paradigms, but the real issue is that neither side has enough credibility, or integrity to work towards removing the other's suspicions. The same problem with the fate of Communism and Fascism (Corporatism) is what causes many of the issues we face now. Regardless of the cause, there are those who want to be in charge, and held above the system that they represent.

Until we start to promote integrity and credibility in our leaders who seem to always look for loopholes that will give them the advantage, the people will continue to play the game.

The speed of the team is only as fast as the speed of the leader.

TheSovereign commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 13:32 PM

It should be noted that the American system was not designed to be Utopian. Its a contract between states that set standards and procedures by which the Federal Government, and through the Bill of Rights, set standards by which all Governments, Federal, State, and Local need to abide by as not to trample on the people's rights.

There was a system between our Federal and British system that did not have these standards built in, and it failed. There are checks and balances that are built in, and if we don't participate in those checks and balances, then our system will collapse as any other will.

If you believe in purity in Conservatism or Liberalism, or Communism, or Corporatism, or any 'ism, then we loose the balance, and the system will fail. Continuous maintenance is a must for anything to continue for a long period of time, whether it be a piece of machinery, a building, or a person's body, or a government. Without it, it will eventually fail.

The one thing that I was raised to believe by those who lived through hard times, was to take care of your stuff. Its too expensive to always use things up and just throw them away. We live in a "throw away" society.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 14:22 PM

canative, you said based on facts, which means you believed that the CPUSA built the unions. This is so wrong, it's incredibly stupid if you know the history of the U.S. labor movement. As if there were no unions in the U.S. before 1919! CPUSA had a role to play, of course they did. But to say they themselves built the labor movement/the unions, that they were the leaders and guiders, is just ridiculous. The CPUSA hasn't even been a factor in the unions for decades when the main union federation buckled under government pressure and kicked them out of the unions. Only a few unions didn't do this, and surprise surprise they are the ones that are actually trying to fight for their workers against the bosses today.

Also socialism and communism are making a comeback in polls, both are more popular than our congress and about half of the younger generation has a favorable opinion of socialism.

Friendo commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 15:30 PM

All they are saying is give Communism a chance.

I wonder why an academically dumbed down and politically mislead younger generation would find themselves favoring communism?

I know other very specific and exacting patriotic skills, not tracked by polls, that have also made a stealthy comeback. Great comfort and reassurance can result from the peace of mind knowing that certain skills and operatives have been reprised.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 15:37 PM

TheSovereign, what kind of analysis is that that you give(When you're talking about fascism and communism)? Instead of looking at what happened, the history of the Russian Revolution and the subsequent effect that had on the world communist movement you refer to some abstract notions that ignore the actual events that happen. This has always been the cheapest way to look at any historical event for it requires almost absolutely no actual knowledge of events that happened.

And what do you mean the "American system" is not forced upon us but communism and fascism would?

TheSovereign commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 16:02 PM

Stalin was no Communist, he was a power hungry dictator who shored up his power through ruthlessness against the people of his country, under the guise of a political system that would not have provided him the power that he desired.

Jimmy Hoffa was corrupt for power by bringing in mob money, and then being beholding to them. This in turn painted the Unions in a bad light.

Both relied on force, and by putting down those who stood up against them. Our system in America always teeters on corruption and dictatorial leadership. You can see the force that is being implemented by local police forces around the country. Big Brother doesn't need to come from the Federal level, it can come at any level of government.

What has kept this system working for over 200 years is checks and balances, through the 3 branches of government, and by a free press. Complacency by the people by trusting what they are told and not being active in what is going on is what brings about failure.

There is no "Communist" success stories. But there is success in communal living, whether its in the Kibbutzes in Israel, or as its practiced in the Nordic countries. Our political system was called an experiment by the founders, and they didn't give it much chance of lasting, but it has because of those who believe in it. All of the reasons that the founders believed that it would fail have been and still are actively looking to under mind it. There was hypocrisy in what the founders said and what they did, but we the people continue to fight for the balance that is needed, and the maintenance that continues to improve it.

Our form of government is a reflection of the people who are involved with it at any given time. Life isn't fair, and you only get what you work for. We don't have a survival of the fittest form of government, and not all are able to keep up.

All forms of governments need the people's participation to succeed. Dictatorial governments rely on military build up.

Friendo commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 16:13 PM

During the recent Communist May Day Celebration, Communists and Anarchists threw bricks and steel pipes from a rooftop into crowds of unsuspecting people below. Were those who were injured by these violent acts of Communism not forced to become the victims of Forced Commusistic acts of compassion? A perfect example of the Communistic use of force that Communists and their advocates encourage and celebrate when death or injury result as long as the specific act of force will help to achieve their Compassionate Communistic Goals. What is the mentality of a person who would freely participate and associate in mass gatherings that employ inhumane vicious injury to unsupecting people? It tells you everything you need to know about Communism and it's evil advocates, and a small sample of the vast spectrum of communistic force deployed to win the hearts of a Constitutional Republic.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 16:43 PM

Wow Friendo, I've never seen someone use words in such a warped way before. Maybe you need to stop looking at the right-wing blogs too. It was one anarchist individual who anarchists don't even want to associate with. I was talking to an anarchist comrade of mine who was actually there at the occupation of that building. He told me some idiot threw a brick at a pig and accidentally hit somebody else. They got so mad at him that they kicked him out and he subsequently was arrested as he exited. That's far different than the narrative you give here of people happy with the idiot who accidentally hit somebody and celebrating it.

Friendo commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 17:24 PM

When two Comrades are only observed deploying force and causing injury to unsuspecting crowds below through use of flying bricks, steel pipe and gravity in the name of promoting Communism, but go unapprehended, participatory comrades CAN AND MUST deny that the specific criminal occurrence took place. However, as in this case, when only one of the comrades is apprehended for his inhumane senseless criminal conduct employed for the promotion of communism, all comrades MUST DISAVOW THEIR BROTHER COMRADE in order to maintain the FACADE of COMMUNISM. Make it look good, sell it to the public, kick him, feign anger with him, throw him under the bus of communism. Brother Comrade must be sacrificed for the continuance of communsitic goals. WE GET IT, WE SEE THROUGH IT. You are giving us a line of BS that only someone such as yourself would actually believe.

Friendo commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 17:35 PM

Try using facts. One brick? Wrong.

Several bricks and steel pipes were thrown.

It was one individual? Wrong.

There were at least two comrades on the rooftop hurling objects into the crowd below. Only one compassionate communist was arrested.

The intended target was the CROWD BELOW. ANYONE IN THE CROWD WAS AN ACCEPTABLE VICTIM.

Your narrative is not factually based because of the embarassment caused by two comrades to the communist party. WE GET IT.

canative62 commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 21:00 PM

Friendo
Notice how the anarchists seem to use such words as Comrades and how they Say collateral damage is OK (as long as it is small businesses and mom, pop stores
and churches)? Then they get offended because the police try to do their job?
Funny how it just HAS To be ok to disrupt the average citizen from going about their business as long as everyone KNOWS this is a cause for the "people". (Funny how it actually turns out the "people" don't want socialism or Communism.) You know those people not allowed to work or shop, those who just want to live in peace in the big city.

canative62 commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 21:06 PM

Sov
from your qoute froom above
"Our form of government is a reflection of the people who are involved with it at any given time. Life isn't fair, and you only get what you work for. We don't have a survival of the fittest form of government, and not all are able to keep up."

Maybe you havn't seen CNs comments how that mean old lady who invested in GM deserved to lose her shares because she didn't actually work for it.?

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 21:36 PM

Okay let's see the video of what happened. One thing, the people that were below that weren't cops, do you see what they are? They are fellow protesters! Do you see cops in the crowd? Yes! So who do you think he is aiming at? The crowd of people that are on his side or the cops that are also right there? And is it a communist plot that the people down there(other protesters) are telling the idiot on top of the building to stop throwing bricks? We just planned this whole thing out pretty good didn't we? Or for some pretty legit reasons, people actually wanted that one person to stop. And you're right it wasn't one brick(I didn't say he threw just one brick though), he threw two bricks. Another guy comes up onto the roof and what does he do? Well you say he starts throwing them down on the crowd below too(I still haven't figured it out, why is he just throwing bricks at innocent people as you claim again?). What really happens as you can see from the video is he went up to the roof, discarded the bricks(Not anywhere near the crowd), and told the guy to get off the roof, and he did.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t29uGX...
So either this was one guy who decided to do something stupid, injure one of his own, get everybody on his side pissed at him, kicked out, and subsequently arrested. Or this was the plan, throw bricks at ourselves because we don't care about anyone's safety, even our own.

Now maybe that guy threw some other stuff too, maybe some steel pipes I haven't heard talk of that or seen any footage or photos that show this, but that doesn't change the fact that this was one guy doing something by himself which pissed everybody in the movement off. Nobody is sitting here celebrating over somebody hitting a fellow protester in the face with a brick on accident.

canative you want to chastise me for saying there will be collateral damage in the fight for a better world. You forget that our Founders loved direct action and there was much collateral damage in the fight for Independence. I mean just look at the Boston Tea Party! Those guys trespassed on a boat and threw everything on board over! How much of that money could have gone to putting people to work? What about the people that were executed during the Revolutionary War by our side? Or are you going to condemn the Revolutionary War and go over to the side of the British?

canative62 commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 22:21 PM

ARE you REALLY trying to compare this movement with the movement for Independence?
How naive can you be?

Words, just words is all you can use and you still don't have the masses on your side. The Founding Fathers did a much better job of securing a major movement..

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 22:30 PM

Yeah, I'm comparing the development of the worker's revolution to the development of the bourgeois revolution in this country. Oh but it's naive because it's not a cause you believe in right? The American Revolution was okay, it's alright to do all these things when it's for the bourgeois class, but when the workers want to overthrow their capitalist masters like the capitalists overthrew their feudal masters, it's wrong. Can you at least see where I'm coming from?

LarryBaca commented on Thursday, May 03, 2012 at 23:45 PM

"IT is simply to honor the Birth of Our Savior."
Just wondering what was saved...since your "Savior" split, millions upon millions of innocent lives have been lost, so what happened? Just saying...

"Actually it very unlikly anyone know the actual day of the Birth of Jesus..."
True, so a day was made up right, doesn't that make you wonder what else was made up? I started asking those question when I was in the 6th. grade in a Catholic school. You never questioned what you were taught? Why?

"BUT you will take whatever shot you can at Christian because of your HATE.."
Hate is a powerful assumption, but in your world, to question equals hate. Doesn't your little cave have a light or is the light so bright you cannot see and just accept whatever someone tells you lies before and behind you?

canative62 commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 00:39 AM

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with a Christian church BUT that does not make Christianity what you think it is.
How do youo know what I questioned?
How do you know where I came from?
How do you know anything?
Based on your comments your closed mindedness is a strong indication you only know what you were taught WHEN IT WAS WHAT YOU WANTED TO BELIEVE... so it is the only possible truth? WRONG... But I am not the one to even try to show you the error of your thinking... You will live and Die with it...,

canative62 commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 10:41 AM

If I am not mistaken many people got angry when ever anyone said that 911 was typical of the Muslim Faith. YET while misguided men acted in the name of Christianity some on this blog continue to try to label those acts on Christianity... Those acts were not and will never be in line with the Christian teachings of the Bible. Somehow the bias of some cannot get past it...
If you want to call those acts of misguided men typical of Christians then YOU must label 911 as such. You won't do it you will only slam Christianity.

TheSovereign commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 11:23 AM

My religion is better than your religion! I am dad's favorite!

Ah, always the middle child syndrome.

leo_in_lathrop commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 12:30 PM

Larry, obviously the "date" has been approximated. The important thing is the observance of the event. The problem isn't the "Christ" and Savior, the problem are individuals that twist to their own gain. i.e the "health and wealth gospel.

Friendo commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 13:38 PM

Sov, Your obvious intolerance of other's constitutional right providing them with the freedom to exercise their religious beliefs lends itself well toward defining your politics.

Ah, always the attention seeking child.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 13:51 PM

So being critical of religion now means you are against the freedom to practice your religion? Does my criticism get in the way of you practicing your religion? Maybe it is, maybe it makes you people think for just a second that maybe what you've learned is all completely wrong.

Friendo commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 14:08 PM

CN, Now go ahead and try to blur what was posted. Attempting to confuse intolerance with being critical doesn't fly here. Several prior intolerant religious remarks simply express an intolerance towards other's religious beliefs. Although, it was a nice try at a save.

TheSovereign commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 14:19 PM

I agree with you Leo.

TheSovereign commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 14:53 PM

"Maybe you havn't seen CNs comments how that mean old lady who invested in GM deserved to lose her shares because she didn't actually work for it.?" - She did deserve to loose her money, she was not involved in managing her risk. The only sure bet is one that is fixed. GM was poorly managed for decades, and things caught up with her. She could have moved he money into T-Notes or Apple, or gold, instead she choose to keep it with a high risk automobile company. Automotive stocks are typically volatile.

I know this misses the point you were trying to make. You want indignation for the poor old stock investor, but its called risk management for a reason.

Then you go on to bring up the Boston Tea Party. That was an attack by the citizenry against a corporation. A corporation that lobbied for and received tax breaks from the King, who then taxed the citizens to make up for the tax break.Yet, when C_N and the OWS movement does it, they are thugs and radicals.

Here is an article that states that the Oakland Police are overstepping the bounds, and may end up paying for it, the headline reads "Federal Judge Threatens Sanctions Against Oakland Police For ‘Military-Type Response’ To Occupy Protests"

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012...

The first amendment to the Constitution does say more than your beloved freedom to practice your religion, it also includes:" the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The people have the right to receive reciprocal peacefulness from the Government. Keep in mind that every limit that you put on the protesters rights to voice their discontent through protesting, are opening the door for limits on your religious freedoms as well.

It seems the fringe on the right puts more value in the freedom of religion and the right to bear arms. Funny, where have I heard that phrase "wrapping themselves in their guns and their bibles....."?

canative62 commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 15:35 PM

I still have trouble finding where in the Constitution there is a right to destroy the property of others. Even if you have a grievence against them. It would seem that because there is provided a system to follow within the Constitution there would be no allowence for such acts. Since when do we have a right to violate others rights?
And as far as opening the door to limits on religious freedom, guess what that door is open and being passed thru frequently... before long religious freedom will be limited a church building...while others are allowed open access in schools...

TheSovereign commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 16:48 PM

"before long religious freedom will be limited a church building" - As so it should be, and in your homes as well. Live it, don't force it on to others who don't believe what you believe. Anyone's rights end at the tip of their nose, you don't have the right to impose your rights on others.

The further away from society you move the more broad your freedoms become since there will be less people effected by them. I heard it stated once that "your rights extend out as far as you can swing a dead cat." Kind of crude way of putting it but its applicable.

There are no allowances in the Constitution to destroy property, or to spray pepper spray in the face of peaceful protesters. The Constitution doesn't allow for the police to beat on peaceful protesters, or to antagonize them into violence. People don't need to destroy the property of hardworking people in order to make their point. It might be sign of their frustration, but they have no right to impose their frustration on other people's property.

I guess if we were to throw the imported products of corporations in the ocean it would still be ok though. That would fall under history repeating itself?

TheSovereign commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 16:50 PM

"The prescriptions in favor of liberty, ought to be levelled against that quarter where the greatest danger lies, namely, that which possesses the highest prerogative of power: But this (is) not found in either the executive or legislative departments of government, but in the body of the people, operating by the majority against the minority. It may be thought all paper barriers against the power of the community are too weak to be worthy of attention... yet, as they have a tendency to impress some degree of respect for them, to establish the public opinion in their favor, and rouse the attention of the whole community, it may be one mean to control the majority from those acts to which they might be otherwise inclined." -Speech on proposed Bill of Rights to the House of Representatives, June 8, 1789

TheSovereign commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 16:58 PM

"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established." - Proposed Wording for the First Amendment, June 8, 1789 - James Madison

Gives you an idea of where he was going with this notion.

canative62 commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 20:21 PM

Simple NO NATIONAL RELIGION .
there is no hint of denial of GOD

Friendo commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 21:59 PM

'The people have the right to receive reciprocal peacefulness from the Government...WHEN THEY PEACEABLY ASSEMBLE TO PETITION THE GOVERNMENT FOR A REDRESS OF GRIEVANCES.

'The Constitution doesn't allow for the police to beat on peaceful protesters...However, the Constitution does allow for the police to disburse an unlawful assembly such as the occupy riots.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 22:15 PM

Friendo I'm not blurring anything. Somebody says something bad about your religion and you start talking about people hating the right to religious freedom(Which if followed logically means they don't want religious freedom to exist). This is not the case at all. You can hate Christianity with all of your heart and still believe that people have every right to follow it. Famous atheist Youtuber AronRa comes to mind and so does Richard Dawkins. Those dudes are like militantly atheist but they all believe you have every right to believe whatever weird thing you want.

And canative the property destruction happened AFTER the police started to arrest people, the police didn't start arresting people for property destruction. Watch some of the videos from that day, the police come and tackle people that are just walking or riding their bikes.

Friendo commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 22:54 PM

CN, Please try to be accurate in your assessment.

Saying something bad about another's religious beliefs IS AN EXPRESSION OF RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE. Rather then stating a disagreement with another's constitutional religious beliefs, some posters here take their unneccessarily cruel comments to the level of Religious Intolerance. It happens here all the time.

Friendo commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 23:05 PM

CN, The police have the legal authority to disburse an unlawful assembly such as the unlawful occupy tantrums. The occupy rioters have no constitutional right to destroy property once the police begin to disburse an unlawful assembly. The police response was lawful while the response from the occupy children was unlawful.

canative62 commented on Friday, May 04, 2012 at 23:21 PM

So, inteligent people getting even with the police, damage other peoples property? Makes a lot of sense, my hope is that it turns even more people in favor of a conservative government,
because of you anarchists..

Friendo commented on Saturday, May 05, 2012 at 00:23 AM

canative62,
The so called intelligent people don't act with intelligence because their conduct is always predicated upon a prehistoric emotional mentality. Their criminal actions and protests lack any intelligence. You know like throwing bricks and steel pipes into crowds below them.

canative62 commented on Saturday, May 05, 2012 at 01:10 AM

Very true.
you seem to have a better grasp of reality than some on this blog

Friendo commented on Saturday, May 05, 2012 at 16:27 PM

canative62,

Thanks. Notice how Sov ratchets up his constitutional scare tactics against those who demand that occupy criminals face justice or that religious tolerance be constitutionally respected.

Sov wrote, "Anyone's rights end at the tip of their nose, you don't have the right to impose your rights on others."

He is of course wrong because religious rights are not imposed on anyone. Laws are imposed and enforced...not religious rights. Sov isn't being forced to attend any church or religious gathering. Are citizens who enjoy freedom of religion restricted from participating in our constitutional republic? I think not.

Scare tactics and constitutional distortions can't get you very far. Let's try keeping it real.

LarryBaca commented on Saturday, May 05, 2012 at 18:58 PM

Funny that you guys talk up "Scare Tactics" when that has been the mainstay of organized religion from day one... Now taken up by the GOP...I.E. "Obama is a Socialist out to take your government away" "Obama is not a real American" "Obama is the anti-Christ"...yada..yada...yada...

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Sunday, May 06, 2012 at 21:45 PM

Friendo I'm pretty accurate in my assessment, you say people have an intolerance to your right to freedom of religion, which I'm pointing out has a vastly different meaning than being intolerant of your religion. The latter is bs too, I'm not intolerant of Christians just because I am highly critical of it. I'd be a pretty lonely person if I was. I know they have the legal authority to do so, I just don't respect their authority at all. What I'm saying is what happened didn't happen because of property destruction, most of what the cops did happened beforehand. So I'm not saying we had any legal authority(and didn't ask for any), just fighting some of these illusions about what transpired. But to watch a bunch of conservatives talk about scare tactics is funny. As has been said, half of you are scared into believing in Christ, and the other half of you are scared enough to throw what rights we have in the trash from the fear of terrorism.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Sunday, May 06, 2012 at 21:49 PM

And do I even have to point out there other scare tactic? Vote for conservatives because those other guys are anarchists! Doesn't matter if you are or not, commies, socialists, Democrats, liberals, they're all apparently interchangeable!

Friendo commented on Sunday, May 06, 2012 at 22:04 PM

CN, Wrong. There have been many online posts here that clearly express an intolerance of other's religious beliefs rather than a critical disagreement. Please be accurate. Start thinking with the intellectual portion of your brain instead of the emotional part and you may discover you have the the ability to supply well reasoned responses.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Sunday, May 06, 2012 at 22:58 PM

There's a difference between being critical of people's religion and being intolerant of a person because of their religion. What's so hard to understand about this? If you're going to say the Earth is 6,000 years old and if you believe in talking snakes and donkeys I'm going to call you out on it, I might even say that's downright stupid. But does that mean I'm intolerant of those who believe it? No. I could be but it doesn't necessitate that I am. What's up with you guys claiming whoever isn't with you is intolerant(canative does this same exact thing about politics. Disagreeing with him makes you a bigot supposedly).

LarryBaca commented on Monday, May 07, 2012 at 02:11 AM

Talking donkeys...that's rich...wait a minute, wasn't there a talking mule named Francis once?? It was on TV and everything, must be true then right??
Speaking of donkeys and such, wonder if Noah put any mules on his little boat or did he just use the donkeys and the horses he already had? Wonder if he had two Iguanas being as that they hadn't been discovered yet, how about Komodo dragons?

TheSovereign commented on Monday, May 07, 2012 at 12:43 PM

Painting with broad strokes is the norm when speaking with propagandists (you can't debate them because they are propagandists, and rely on perception as opposed to facts) whose only desire it is to divide.

Not all people who profess to the Christian religion are trying to force their beliefs on the masses, just those who wish to use it for their own political gain. I saw a blogger on another site that said it well, " Thank God Jesus wasn't a Christian!" Now one of those on the fringe here will have a field day playing with this statement, but its about actions opposed to words.

On another site known for its radical right leanings, there is a blogger making the case that "Christ" would be in favor of violence against the non-conservatives. He goes off the deep end claiming that there should be military type actions taken against Liberals, since they are supposedly non-Christian, and that the "Christ" would support this. From what I learned about Jesus, the symbology that he was presenting when he rode into Jerusalem on the back of an ass as opposed to a great stallion, was to show his humbleness, and to show he was the King of your soul, and not a King of your land. This radical conservative may be correct in his belief of a "Christ" which translated means Messiah, since he is a Christian, and not a follower of Jesus. Actions and words, they use the words of Jesus to justify their actions.

Then you see that Pastor who was ranting about taking action against children who don't fit a preconceived image of male or female with violence. Using his religion, he stated that you should beat your son if he has a limp wrist. The irony is that when Jesus was speaking about laying down with other men, he was speaking about the cultural practice of men showing their dominance over other men. He wasn't speaking about two men loving each other, he was speaking about men not dominating other men by violently raping them. Now the Christian Pastor is teaching his flock to violently dominate their children into fitting a personal image of what a male or female should be.

I find wisdom in the teachings of Jesus, as I do in Buddha, or the Dali Lama, or Gandhi, and the many other teachers of peace and kindness, and brotherhood. I don't find wisdom in religions that are in a constant state of martyrdom, while pushing for political power. From what I see in types of Christianity around us today, they need to play the victim so that they can continue their push for dominance over our laws. It was this desired dominance that the founders wrote, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" so that religious laws are not written into our laws, and so that one religion doesn't out law another religion, as we see the Christians now trying to do to the Muslims.

TheSovereign commented on Monday, May 07, 2012 at 12:44 PM

The problem with religion is that it is based on faith, and not fact, and this creates a dilemma for those Christians who want to rule over others. As C_N pointed out, in order for your faith to deal with fact, you demonize anyone who claims the world is older than 6000 years old. There is nothing wrong with questioning science, scientists do it all of the time. They are constantly questioning Einstein's theory of relativity and by doing so, they continue to test and at times prove parts of it. That is not what the power hungry Christians do though, its just "ours is correct" and they go about never trying to prove it but only demonizing the other. Faith is not fact, which is why you are stuck trying to cram it down people's throats.

If you want to see religious intolerance, just look at how the religious right has to paint Obama as evil and is a socialist, and a Muslim. Now there is tolerance!

canative62 commented on Monday, May 07, 2012 at 12:56 PM

Not if its true

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Monday, May 07, 2012 at 13:38 PM

But it's not. The Earth is not 6,000 years old.

TheSovereign commented on Monday, May 07, 2012 at 14:13 PM

If it was true it would be called 'fact", but instead its called "faith."

faith 
 [feyth] Show IPA
noun
1. confidence or trust in a person or thing: faith in another's ability.
2. belief that is not based on proof: He had faith that the hypothesis would be substantiated by fact.

canative62 commented on Monday, May 07, 2012 at 20:42 PM

AND evolution has absolute Proof???
To whom, those who accept what scientists ASSUME would happen in bringing life from nothing???
Where is the proof even scientist admit there are missing links...

TheSovereign commented on Monday, May 07, 2012 at 21:14 PM

No one said there needs to be proof of a missing link to prove evolution. The nice thing is, that they can continue to find proof, you need to change your ancient nomadic sand dwelling story in order to bring any proof to what you believe.

LarryBaca commented on Monday, May 07, 2012 at 23:37 PM

6 Thousand years??? So Native, you say that Dinosaurs lived alongside Man, like in the Flintstones?
Can you please explain how Fossil fuels, like oil, only took a few years to develop?
As far as Evolution, it is going on right now. Remember what the GOP was when Lincoln was President and what it has EVOLVED into now? :-)

Friendo commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 00:06 AM

"Talking donkeys...that's rich...wait a minute, wasn't there a talking mule named Francis once??"...Yes that is correct. And one named Larry as well.

Shoving an Unconstitutional Left Wing Lunatic Fringe Agenda down Americas throat is perfectly acceptable to the Left Wing Lunatic Fringe Party but when american citizens that practice freedom of religion wish to participate in a constitional republic Sov gets all worked up and gives himself a wedgie. The Lunatic Fringe Party can sure dish it out, if only they could take it.

canative62 commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 00:20 AM

No one said there needs to be PROOF of Christianity JUST FAITH IN GOD

VERY SIMPLE LARRY GOD MAde it so.

canative62 commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 00:40 AM

grasdual process in which something changes into a different and better or more complex form..

The close examination of current shows mankind who are SUPPOSED to be the top of the ladder is in fact losing in quality

In direct opposition of the theory of evolution.

Friendo commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 01:17 AM

ADMIRAL WILLIAM McRAVEN FOR PRESIDENT 2012. HE HAS PROVEN HIMSELF TO BE A DECISIVE ACCOUNTABLE LEADER UNLIKE THE KNUCKLEHEAD WE ARE CURRENTLY STUCK WITH FOR EIGHT AGONIZING MORE MONTHS.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 04:35 AM

I don't see what's unconstitutional about not wanting to be ruled over by a certain religion, that being Christianity right now. If you want to follow your religion that is fine, but don't make me follow it by basing our laws on your book. If I wanted to follow it I'd follow it without the State forcing me to. And do we really want to get started on this missing link stuff? I gave a video citing a dozen or more "missing links" and the only response I got was that it was a youtube video so it doesn't count.

TheSovereign commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 11:31 AM

No one said there needs to be PROOF of Christianity JUST FAITH IN GOD - and no one said, except for you, that YOU shouldn't have your faith. Its a personal issue, and I don't have faith in it. From the sound of it neither does Larry or C_N.

Since we don't have FAITH in your God, there is no reason that we should have anything to do with him.... Her.... Uh, I mean the three of them, all one of them.

It's yours, live it, love it, and show the love to others that it seems to have been based on., and not the judgemental "tough love" that the Christian right is always pushing.

LarryBaca commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 16:20 PM

Fredo, you keep mentioning "The Lunatic Fringe Party", which is confusing because the name was given to the Extreme Right on these pages a long, long time ago. If I remember correctly, I believe it was the Sov who first coined that phrase.
Try being original and make something up yourself. Remember the bad press Frank got for using someone else's work as his own?

LarryBaca commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 16:21 PM

Native, you might have missed this so I'll repost:
6 Thousand years??? So Native, you say that Dinosaurs lived alongside Man, like in the Flintstones?
Can you please explain how Fossil fuels, like oil, only took a few years to develop?
As far as Evolution, it is going on right now. Remember what the GOP was when Lincoln was President and what it has EVOLVED into now? :-)

TheSovereign commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 16:35 PM

Evolution is based on changes that occur due to changes in the environment in which a species lives.

Back in the good old days of the Civil War, the average size of a soldier was 5'4", and between 120 and 130 LBS. if we weren't still evolving, why aren't the average man/soldier (not many women soldiers at that time) the same size now?

Friendo commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 17:04 PM

Sorry Larry, Your memory is incorrect. Sov called the conservatives...fringe. I was very specific labeling the Left as the Lunatic Fringe Party, which they are. Oh by the way Larry I think it is great that under our constitutional republic we can constuct and enact laws that we find to be in accordance with our personal values. Moral values give strength to our nation and the constitution provides for our elected officials to construct and enact our laws. Don't worry there is no current church or religion that is passing law. The Lunatic Fringe gets more paranoid by the day.

TheSovereign commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 17:12 PM
TheSovereign commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 17:13 PM

ANd it is safe to say there is no war on religion.

LarryBaca commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 19:09 PM

Fredo, again, paranoia is a "Fringe" trademark...once again make something up that is original...

Friendo commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 19:28 PM

Little Donkey, YOUR regular posts clearly confirm your Lunatice Fringe paranoia. Your little conspiracy theory about Christianity being responsible for our statutory laws is evidence. Paranoia...You and your Lunatic Fringe Party own it...once again don't distort fact because it actually reveals you for who you really are...instead just embrace it!!! Paranoia is so you Chewbacca:-)

TheSovereign commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 20:40 PM

Just admit that you and the rest of the right are bankrupt, all you are doing is attacking Larry.

Where are the suggestions to improve the economy, or to reduce spending by reducing the largest line item, or how do we get people back to work? What tax programs would be balanced?

There is no vision on the right, just draining the money out of what used to work, and putting in the pockets of the wealthy..... That is why they have picked Romney. He has proven to be a master at draining the wealth out of businesses and putting it in his pockets. That's his record, it's not fear mongering. What suggestions do you have so all ships rise, like it used to do?

Is attacking Larry bringing any new ideas forward? Is fear mongering working?

These are rhetorical questions, and I already know the answers. The best you can do is try and make yourself look better by making someone else look bad. No suggestion, no ideas, nothing positive, nothing hopeful.

LarryBaca commented on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 at 23:33 PM

"Your little conspiracy theory about Christianity being responsible for our statutory laws" I don't recall saying anything of the kind.... talk about paranoia...
So do you have a reply for the Sov? I mean the kind of reply he is looking for? I think not...
Oh, I'm not sure I see the connection between "Little Donkey" and "Chewbacca" but "FREDO" sez it all doesn't it?...:-)

LarryBaca commented on Saturday, May 12, 2012 at 00:29 AM

....and like his namesake, Fredo curls up on the curb watching his father bleed to death...not knowing what to do or say....

canative62 commented on Saturday, May 12, 2012 at 13:23 PM

You mean Friendo is taking a page out of the book form the Left who are on this blog brining personal attacks after attack... BUT since it is from the Left its OK but don't let the Right attack....
Removing the decades old "One Nation under God" IS IN FACT an attack on Christianity
Removing prayer form the schools
the effort to curb Christianity confining it to church buildings is in fact an attack on Christianity
Those moves have not been made towards ANY OTHER RELIGION..
just facts

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Saturday, May 12, 2012 at 15:03 PM

Removing "One Nation under God" is not an attack on Christianity, but a reaffirmation that we are a society that is culturally diverse where there is a separation of Church from State. There are many of us here that don't think it's appropriate for there to be such a slogan(That was put in place a few decades ago as anti-communist reaction)on the money as it's not even true.

Removing prayer from school is the exact same thing, there are those of us that don't find it appropriate that a place of public education has a time for every student to prayer. You can sit there and talk to yourself telepathically all you want, nobody is saying you can't. We just don't want a mandatory time of the day where we are supposed to do it because many of us don't do it(Even a lot of Christians find it uncomfortable to pray like that, I sure as hell did when I was Christian).

But it seems anytime somebody in this country says "Hey Christians, you aren't the only ones living here, we don't want to play by your Christian rules" some of you get all offended that somebody is questioning Christian hegemony. Some people aren't Christians, get over it.

"Those moves" affect every religion. Those rules would effect Muslims if they ever tried to put in their religious laws into our laws or tried to put prayer back in school(What's the big deal with that anyways, why are you people so intent on having prayer in school). It's kind of funny that we hear the right-wing screaming about sharia law creeping in every once in a while and about how unconstitutional it would be, but don't bat an eye when they do the same thing with their religious laws. Bunch of hypocrites.

midwestgirl commented on Saturday, May 12, 2012 at 16:33 PM

Now when they speak of this IN GOD WE TRUST
I am still trying to figure which god They speak of.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of...

Then the sects of each of those gods
Christian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_...

Jewish
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/

Muslim

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_...
K
Hindu
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_de...

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Saturday, May 12, 2012 at 16:39 PM

Oh wow, I said "One Nation Under God" was on money, now I feel stupid for that one.

TheSovereign commented on Saturday, May 12, 2012 at 16:45 PM

So Native, when are you going to get out ahead of these backwards Red states that are outlawing Sharia Law, especially when there is no movement to incorporate it into our laws? Should be no issue then if we start passing around petitions to outlaw any Christian laws, then should there? Keep those 10 Commandments away from our court houses.

The Constitution speaks to religion, it doesn't specify any one in particular.

And as C_N stated, time in school is too valuable to be wasting it on anything but education. There is a time and a place for all religions, and it should not be restricted in those places. Freedom of speech allows all to speak about their religion, and people should not impede that.

I would be alright with some Buddhist chanting and transcendental meditation in school, how about you? Bring a little peace to the minds of children. Instead of recess, they could do some meditating and become one with the world, you shouldn't have an issue with would you?

There is a reason government stays out of religion, then we don't fight over whose should get preferential treatment and which ones are outlawed.

LarryBaca commented on Saturday, May 12, 2012 at 18:14 PM

Native wants kids to reject science and just believe what the Bible sez. Dinosaurs ran around with Man...etc...etc..
Oh, by the way Native, you never answered my question on how you think Fossil Fuels developed, you know, oil? Being that you believe the Earth is only 6 thousands years old and it takes a hell of a lot longer for that process and all... so??
Did God pump the oil into the ground because he knew Exxon would need it later? Please, I am really curious about your explanation...

canative62 commented on Saturday, May 12, 2012 at 23:30 PM

When God made the fosil fuel it is pure ignorance to believe he needed more than 6.000 years
here is your answer for the second time... God made it so.

LarryBaca commented on Saturday, May 12, 2012 at 23:44 PM

So God put the oil there? Don't you find it strange that he would put the oil only in the lands of the sworn enemy's of his so called "chosen people" and leave their lands with nothing? Then of course he later introduces them to Hitler. Nice guy this God of yours. Of course he did give them most of the Hollywood Movie Industry.
"Pure ignorance" interesting comment....

TheSovereign commented on Sunday, May 13, 2012 at 02:28 AM

Which god would that be by the way? Poseidon? Krishna? Zeus? Anu? Ajtzak?

LarryBaca commented on Sunday, May 13, 2012 at 17:22 PM

I believe it would be the three headed God, no not Densu or Shiva but the Trinity God....Interesting story behind that fable. It seems that "Long ago - right after the Flood, a man named Nimrod
emerged on the scene of history. His name means
"let us rebel". He led the founding of the first
great civilization – Babylon...He led them to rebel
against God. He had tremendous power, so much that he
became a god in the eyes of the people. When he died,
his wife, Semiramis, recognized that without him she
might loose power herself, so she devised a clever plan.
Semiramis was pregnant. She told everyone that the child
in her womb was none other than Nimrod being reborn.
This was the beginning of the greatest perversion...
the concept of father/son deity, the very first
incomprehensible divine trinity.
Of course someone like Native will cite another fable from his favorite book of fables...:-) Just watch....
Oh, Native, what is your take on what I said about your God dealing out the worlds supply of Oil? How about Hitler, maybe the movie industry?

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Monday, May 14, 2012 at 01:43 AM

Arguing science with a person as anti-science and religious as canative is a waste. The answer will always be "God did it, the end." It's easy, simple, and takes no thought to come up with. Well I don't know what the answer is so God just did it. Simple as that, where's the confusion?

LarryBaca commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 00:28 AM

Yeah, Native likes to say "God made it so", like Ramses in the movie "Moses" when he says "Let it be said, let it be written".
Wonder if Native even realizes what he says. If God made everything "so", then he made Obama President, right? So Native is going against Gods wishes when he rejects his choice for President?
Oh, Native what about that oil thing, why did he skip his "Chosen People" when he was passing out the oil?

Friendo commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 14:56 PM

Sadly, we clearly see for ourselves that CN, Sov and Larry don't find it sufficient to merely disagree with the expressed religious beliefs of another, they are compelled to employ their genuine RELIGIOUS INTOLERANCE via childish ridicule.

Gentlemen, all three of you should be very proud of yourselves.

TheSovereign commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 16:17 PM

You can always tell someone from the right, they can't present anything positive, they just try and twist reality on those who question the right.

Its either our way or you are evil, right Friendo?. Let me define your version of religious intolerance, its when we don't let you force your beliefs on us, yet you drive towards limiting everyone else's. In favor of any anti-sharia laws that are being implemented even though there is no push for sharia law? Have you been in favor of keeping mosques from being built, or in favor of the FBI spying on muslims, or are you stepping away from the intolerant right?

I have been consistent in pointing out that all religions should have the freedom to practice in their homes and in their houses of prayer as well as in their hearts and lives. If you want or expect more, then you are in the wrong country. Our government has no business siding with any one religion, and they have no business incorporating any religious beliefs in our laws. If your beliefs are good, then practice them yourselves for a change instead of expecting us to practice them. What may be good for you may not be for us. We have liberties in this country and if we don't want your religion in our lives, its our liberty to live that way.

Sounds like you and the rest of the intolerant right are against the liberties that Americans have been fighting for since the beginning of this nation. Why is the right so against their fellow citizens sharing the rights and liberties that should be afforded to all? I bet you are proud of yourself thinking you all are so high and mighty!

LarryBaca commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 17:00 PM

Fredo, actually I am...thank you very much.
Don't blame me just because you guys can't answer a simple question without some kind of magic being involved with your reply, if you answer at all. :-)
Logic is a hard pill to swallow if all you have is some Holy Water you can't use.

canative62 commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 19:06 PM

Friendo
Actually there are those who don't understand we choose not to answer because, you can't have a debate with a fool, OUR BIBLE tells us the FOOL says in his heart there is no GOD

I wonder what that says about a boy raised under the Bible then Rejecting what he has learned because he had a bad experience or two. The Bible never promises a rose garden just answers how to deal with the problems. Once you have seen the light and choose to be blind that is truly a difficult situation. BUT it is easier to believe what man has told them than to believe in a HOLY GOD. "Life came from out of no where and the sun is the ONLY object is the universe that never burns out", because the man says so..
They probably have never truly answered the fact God is alive HE answeres our prayers.

canative62 commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 19:11 PM

In 600 BC, under the reign of King Nebuchadnezzar, a Babylonian artist was commissioned to shape reliefs of animals on the structures associated with the Ishtar Gate. Centuries later, in 1887 AD, when German archaeologist Robert Koldeway stumbled upon the blue-glazed brick, that gate was rediscovered. The animals appear in alternating rows with lions, fierce bulls (rimi or reems in Chaldean), and curious long-necked dragons (sirrush). The lions and bulls would have been present at that time in the Middle East. But, on what creature did the ancient Babylonians model the dragon? (click the depiction to enlarge) The same word, sirrush, is mentioned in the book of Bel and the Dragon, from the Apocrypha. Both the description there and the image on these unearthed walls (see right), which are now displayed in the Berlin Vorderasiatisches Museum, appear to fit a sauropod dinosaur. (Shuker, Karl P.N., “The Sirrush of Babylon,” Dragons: A Natural History, 1995, pp. 70-73.)

canative62 commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 19:22 PM

Other Evidence
Evidence in many other places of the world indicates that man and dinosaur lived together. More footprints of man and dinosaur in the same strata are found elsewhere. Wall paintings in the caves of Rhodesia are rather interesting. These paintings depict the Brontosaurus. This dinosaur was supposed to have become extinct 70 million years ago, but these bushmen who painted them did not leave their caves until 3500 years ago, or 1500 B.C.

The problem for the evolutionist in this particular instance is the fact that the bushmen only painted things they could actually see, that existed in their realm of understanding: they painted only from real life. Since dinosaurs were supposed to have died out so long ago there would not have been any around for them to paint, unless the 70 million year claim is wrong.

Thinking the reported cave paintings were quite a significant find of great interest, Ev Purcell, a member of the Board of Directors of the Creation-Science Research Center wrote to a paleontologist in Rhodesia. The paleontologist was asked to check on these pictures. He should be excited at the find and wish to examine it personally.

Photographs and artists' copies of the drawings showed the long neck of a Brontosaurus extending up out of the reeds. But the paleontologist in Rhodesia wrote that the paintings could not be a brontosaurus because the brontosaurus died out 70 million years ago. Since the bushmen only painted from real life and left their caves 3500 years ago, the inquirer obviously must be mistaken in his interpretation.

Without ever leaving his office he decided that the paintings must be of a giraffe or an ant bear. An ant bear is a type of aardvark. Personally, I feel that any paleontologist who cannot tell the difference between a giraffe and an aardvark probably would not know a brontosaurus if he saw one. This man would not even bother to leave his office because he did not want to be confused by facts. His mind was made up.

TheSovereign commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 19:54 PM

This has desperation written all over it.

By the way, your religion has more in common with the Muslim faith then the faux Conservative that you have running for the conservative nomination. Yet the right attacks the Muslims, and our president who the right falsely demonizes as a Muslim.

Shouldn't the Muslims be as free to exercise their religion as those who share the faith of the faux conservative contender? Or should it be just the faiths that the conservative deem worthy? That's how it sounds. Very, very intolerant of you on the right, "it's our god or no god, ours is the good god, and theirs is a false god!"

Welcome to America, we have liberties here, and we can follow any religion we want, and we are allotted the protection from having one forced on us like you want to do.

Friendo commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 19:56 PM

Sov the only thing in which you are consistent is your intolerance of others religious beliefs. You are not forced to endure anyones religious beliefs in the US, so stop portraying yourself as a constitutional martyr.

LarryBaca commented on Tuesday, May 15, 2012 at 21:32 PM

So Native DOES actually believe man lived with Dinosaurs like in the Flintstones. WOW! Cave drawings...WOW... Well at least he does admit there were Cave Men...HA!! Does this guys balloon ever land??

TheSovereign commented on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 at 00:18 AM

Really friendo, then join me in fighting for the right for gay marriage against the intolerant Christian right. They are standing in the way of equal rights in the name of their intolerance for all Americans to have the right to get married and live in a loving relationship. Liberty for all!

LarryBaca commented on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 at 00:29 AM

Oh, I missed this part, it's freaking hilarious: "The problem for the evolutionist in this particular instance is the fact that the bushmen only painted things they could actually see, that existed in their realm of understanding: they painted only from real life.. "
Really? So those cave drawings of what looks like Space Men complete with helmets with antennae sticking out from them were something they actually witnessed? Really? Don't believe it? Look it up, there are plenty of them.
Native, please, more....please

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 at 01:57 AM

You just have to love the logic used here. You see the BIBLE tells me this and that, I won't even debate with these idiots because the BIBLE tells me that only a FOOL wouldn't believe in what it says! So we're the fools for not dogmatically looking at an ancient book and saying "well considering the FACTS we now know of seem to negate a lot of what is said in this thing, I'd rather not follow every word of the thing which would force me to adopt ridiculous positions if I followed it word for word". I wouldn't even if it was historically correct because I find the thing morally reprehensible, but the fact that it is so wrong when it comes to the facts of history is just a plus. So people like you can keep calling us fools for not accepting your God just because the Bible tells me to(I would have to think it actually had some authority to care about that kind of logic) and I will keep rolling my eyes when you say the Earth is 6,000 years old and that humans and dinosaurs walked the Earth together.

LarryBaca commented on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 at 19:25 PM

Oh, here is something else I just found out (not being a Dinosaur expert and all)
Native states:
"Photographs and artists' copies of the drawings showed the long neck of a Brontosaurus extending up out of the reeds. But the paleontologist in Rhodesia wrote that the paintings could not be a brontosaurus because the brontosaurus died out 70 million years ago. Since the bushmen only painted from real life and left their caves 3500 years ago, the inquirer obviously must be mistaken in his interpretation."

From real scientists:

"There is no such thing as a Brontosaurus" " ... Marsh, the man who found the bones in Wyoming way back in 1879, purposely assembled the heads incorrectly. The fact is, the body he found was headless. So he used the head of the closest dinosaur he could find. (Which was miles away not only in a different quarry, but in a different layer of strata).It didn't matter to him that the head he found was already attached to another body (The body of a Camarasaurus).This mistake lasted until 1975, when Dr. Jack Mc Intosh and Dr. David Berman proved to the scientific community that the Brontosaurus was actually the body of an Apatosaurus." http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs...

So, a "real" scientist would never have used the word "Brontosaurus" as there is no such thing as one. It would be like a scientist today comparing something to the biology of the Loch Ness Monster ...

Now don't you feel rather embarrassed Native? I would... In fact I expect you to just ignore this whole thing and save yourself from embarrassing yourself further....

canative62 commented on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 at 19:55 PM

No I don't feel embarrased at all, guess what I still believe the Bible and I still have doubts about your "science"

TheSovereign commented on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 at 19:57 PM

So there was no such thing as a Brontosaurus burgers then????? You mean they made that up on the Flintstones???? How can that be, I loved the Flintstones!

canative62 commented on Wednesday, May 16, 2012 at 20:32 PM

Are dinosaurs mentioned in the Bible?

Di*nosaur-like creatures are mentioned in the Bible. The Bible uses ancient names like “behemoth” and “tannin.” Behemoth means kingly, gigantic beasts. Tannin is a term which i*ncludes dragon-like animals and the great sea creatures such as whales, giant squids, and marine repti*les like the plesi*osaurs that may have become extinct.

The Bible's best description of a di*nosaur-like animal is recorded in Job chapter 40. “Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox. What strength he has in hi*s loins, what power in the muscles of his belly! His tail sways like a cedar; the sinews of his thi*ghs are close-knit. His bones are tubes of bronze, hi*s limbs like rods of iron. He ranks first among the works of God…” (Job 40:15-19).

The book of Job is very old, probably written around 2,000 years before Jesus was born. Here God describes a great king of the land ani*mals like some of the biggest dinosaurs, the Diplodocus and Apatosaurus. It was a gigantic plant-eater with great muscles and very strong bones. The long Diplodocus had leg bones so strong that he could have held three others on his back.

The behemoth were not afraid. They did not need to be; they were huge. Their tai*ls were so long and strong that God compared them to cedars - one of the largest and most spectacular trees of the ancient world.

LarryBaca commented on Thursday, May 17, 2012 at 00:24 AM

So that was before Noah and his big boat right? So did he put two of each of those on board too?

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Thursday, May 17, 2012 at 02:05 AM

I imagine the Bible would be a completely different book if humans and dinosaurs actually coexisted. Funny how the Bible doesn't really go into giant carnivorous beasts feeding on our poor helpless people. You'd think if such things actually roamed the Earth with us and we had to compete with dinosaurs there would be a little more than "Look at the behemoth, which I made along with you and which feeds on grass like an ox". I imagine most of our early existence would be like a epic Jurassic Park adventure, the fact that none of this is talked about in the Bible solidifies that people and dinosaurs did not coexist. But please canative, please keep calling us the fools smh.

LarryBaca commented on Thursday, May 17, 2012 at 16:34 PM

So Native, want to explain the Noah/Dinosaur connection and the cave art with what look like Space men?
How about why God skipped his "chosen people" when he was passing out the Oil?
How about the fact that there was no such thing as a Brontosaurus, yet your "paleontologist in Rhodesia" claimed there were? Come on Native, you made that whole thing up, didn't you? Either that, or you better read something from a real paleontologist.

LarryBaca commented on Saturday, May 19, 2012 at 18:27 PM

When Native gets busted in the woods, does he make a sound?

Friendo commented on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 at 15:58 PM

Does Chewbacca make a sound in the woods while he spews his intolerant laced comments directed at other's religious beliefs?

canative62 commented on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 at 17:55 PM

Friendo
When Chewbaca is spewing NOBODY really cares.. They understand he is just spitting what he has been told. While all the while condeming others who believe what they have been told on faith.. What a hypocrit

LarryBaca commented on Wednesday, May 23, 2012 at 23:06 PM

Fredo and Native, apparently you two care.:-)
Native, guess you still don't want to explain the Noah/Dinosaur connection, huh?
Not even the Oil thing? How about your Paleontologist who told you there were actually a Dinosaur called a Brontosaurus other than on the Flintstones. :-)
Oh,uh, that's hypocrite not hypocrit you all...:-)

canative62 commented on Thursday, May 24, 2012 at 01:23 AM

Can't explain anything to someone with a closed mind.. SO I guess I really won't explain anythig to you.

LarryBaca commented on Friday, May 25, 2012 at 16:32 PM

Yeah, we all expected something like that from you...
If you can't answer simple questions, how can we expect for anything you say to have any credibility at all? Simple answer: We can't...

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Saturday, May 26, 2012 at 04:20 AM

Canative the irony of what you say gets me everytime! Like really you think you have room to talk about anybody being close minded and just spouting what you've been told? What exactly do you think your dogmatism is all about? Having an open mind and not just spewing non-sensical relugious teachings?

canative62 commented on Saturday, May 26, 2012 at 13:11 PM

If I were not "dogmatic" about my faith you would be the first to call me a hyprocrite.. SO I am what I am

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Saturday, May 26, 2012 at 15:45 PM

I wouldn't call you a hypocrite because you already probably don't follow everything the Bible says anyways. But I'm more concerned with people thinking Dino's and humans existed side by side. I'm more concerned about the anti-intellectual, anti-science view some of you religious people have.

canative62 commented on Saturday, May 26, 2012 at 16:13 PM

WHY
why should it concern you that there are definate differences in opinion What makes that anti intellectual? where do we have the ABSOLUTE PROOF that these theories are in fact factual??? I believe they are in fact theories based on conjecture...Ther certainly enough who dis believe , other than those who believe the BIBLE.

LarryBaca commented on Saturday, May 26, 2012 at 20:59 PM

Native, just what do you want as "ABSOLUTE PROOF"... Oh, I know, you need GOD to tell you it is, right?

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 03:10 AM

Why do I care? Because it has a detrimental effect on society when science and intelligence are attacked so aggressively. Yeah I think it's anti-intellectual to attack the school system the way conservatives do and empirical evidence. It's funny that you demand proof of things( and shrug them off when it's actually presented) when it comes to scientific theory when it goes counter to your religion but you don't demand any proof at all for any of your religious nonsense. That is the thing that is seriously lacking proof. I don't know how many times you have to be told canative, but just because something is followed by enough to be considered popular opinion does not indeed make it right. Just like most people used to think the Earth is flat.

TheSovereign commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 10:54 AM

"Just like most people used to think the Earth is flat." - Its not?????

Actually, the number is something like 10% of the population still believes that the Earth is flat. That would be in the neighborhood of 32 million people

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 14:09 PM

Yeah ever heard of the flat earth society? So not even 100% believe the earth is round. And why should you canative considering the Bible says the Earth is flat. It's not like you haven't disregarded science before in favor of your religious beliefs.

canative62 commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 14:11 PM

How is it detrimental to the society to have an alterative point of view? YOU DO.

I demand proof when things are stated as fact when they are not FACT the "proof" is only conjecture, much like the doctoring of the climate change "facts"...

canative62 commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 15:15 PM

Just as you can"t make an airplane out of aluminum unless aluminum is available, reasonable atheists admit that for a first cell to form without a Creator, the materials cells are made of would have to have been available: "If life indeed started without the help of miracles, the first organisms must have been made of materials that were easily available." {Iris Fry, The Emergence of Life on Earth, 2000, p. 127. See also: Holt, Biology, Visualizing Life, 1998, p. 192} This obvious fact puts textbook authors who oppose the Creator in a terrible bind because, as we will see, cells are made of very large molecules that will not form in nature except when assembled by already living cells. DNA and RNA for example, are not only never found in nature outside of cells, scientists can"t even make them in the lab!

canative62 commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 15:30 PM

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"MISSING LINK" FOUND: New Fossil Links Humans, Lemurs?

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May 19, 2009—Meet "Ida," the small "missing link" found in Germany that's created a big media splash and will likely continue to make waves among those who study human origins.

In a new book, documentary, and promotional Web site, paleontologist Jorn Hurum, who led the team that analyzed the 47-million-year-old fossil seen above, suggests Ida is a critical missing-link species in primate evolution (interactive guide to human evolution from National Geographic magazine).

(Among the team members was University of Michigan paleontologist Philip Gingerich, a member of the Committee for Research and Exploration of the National Geographic Society, which owns National Geographic News.)

The fossil, he says, bridges the evolutionary split between higher primates such as monkeys, apes, and humans and their more distant relatives such as lemurs.

"This is the first link to all humans," Hurum, of the Natural History Museum in Oslo, Norway, said in a statement. Ida represents "the closest thing we can get to a direct ancestor."

SO this is the closet thing we can get to a direct ancestor... a lemur????
and you call that proof???

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 16:02 PM

It's detrimental to society to have a bunch of people going around denying evidence as is seen with the climate change issue. That right there proves my point exactly. And the fact that your religious fundamentalist nonsense just breeds close-minded ignorant people as you are proof of that. The conservative fundamentalist scene is just a really poor excuse of a pathetic defense of the current system.

TheSovereign commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 16:06 PM

Actually, you are the one labeling it proof. You seem to be making the argument that since we don't have all the answers yet, that the only logical answer is to believe in magic. That may have been good enough when the church wanted Galliao imprisoned for saying the Earth went around the sun as opposed to their faith derived belief that since this supposed god created the Earth, it is the center of the Universe.

God is not the default answer for the questions that we can't answer yet, but "I don't know yet" is perfectly acceptable.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 17:07 PM

And let's be real proof is not what canative cares about when he's saying humans and dinosaurs existed alongside each other. With what proof can he make ridiculous claims like that?

canative62 commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 20:30 PM

"God is not the default answer for the questions that we can't answer yet, but "I don't know yet" is perfectly acceptable."

Yet you can remove the alternative teaching of creationism in schools and teach evolution as FACT to children in a "science" class a topic which is absolutely not science just conjecture...

my opinion is that this is desparation to remove God from the picture..
NOTE; God is not going away...

TheSovereign commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 21:12 PM

Why would it be desperation? There is a separation of church and state. You can teach creationism in private and parochial schools if they so desire, just not in state tax payer funded schools.

You want to believe a desperate attempt to make a fairy tail fit reality, have at it, just keep it out of my grandkids schools. I want his intelligence to grow, not be stifeled with malarkey.

Capitalists_Nightmare commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 22:45 PM

Yeah we can disregard the "alternate teaching" of creationism because it holds absolutely no scientific basis. And why your weird belief? Why not teach the Egyptian creation story or the Japanese creation myth? Why your creation legend? Science belongs in science class, not your religion.

canative62 commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 23:40 PM

from Sov.
"God is not the default answer for the questions that we can't answer yet, but "I don't know yet" is perfectly acceptable."

that does not fit the term science...it then shoulld not be taught as such... As a theory maybe but then OTHER theories should be taught also.

LarryBaca commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 23:43 PM

So Native, can you at least explain your version of Fossil Fuels?

canative62 commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 23:46 PM

its been expained but you won't accept it... SORRY

TheSovereign commented on Sunday, May 27, 2012 at 23:53 PM

Fossil is a keyword here...

midwestgirl commented on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 00:38 AM

Now which one of the creation stories are we to teach in schools since there is a huge list of them.

http://www.magictails.com/creationlin...

LarryBaca commented on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 02:03 AM

Native, Magic isn't an explanation, try reality...

canative62 commented on Monday, May 28, 2012 at 22:15 PM

But a careful investigation and search of the Scriptures reveals that such a model is not dictated by the wording of the Bible. On the contrary, the Bible was already hinting of the sphericity of the earth by referring to the "compass upon the face of the depth" (Proverbs 8:27) some 500 years before the nations first started to doubt the flatness of the earth. The Biblical model is one which has an earth, basically spherical in shape, with angular continents, and pillars which undergird the world. The pillars can be shown to correspond to crystalline rock, commonly called the mantle,

It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in...

The fact that this verse speaks of the "circle of the earth" can mean one of three things: 1) the earth is not a flat square but a flat circle. If that is true then what of the four corners of the earth? A flat circle has no corners. 2) the earth is shaped in a way that is spheroidal but has a square cross-section somewhere, at the equator, for example. 3) the earth is spheroidal in shape. This latter opinion is further strengthened by observing the reference to the inhabitants as grasshoppers, implying a perspective from on high, particularly, the outermost heaven.
Proverbs 8:27 reads:

When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth...

The word "compass" can mean a circular enclosure or a spherical envelope. Since the verse speaks of an extended area -- some three-quarters of the surface of the earth -- the spherical enclosure for "compass" is a better interpretation than a circular enclosure.

In summary, the Bible teaches that the earth is basically a sphere in shape; that there are pillars which undergird the world and which we conclude to be the crystalline rock corresponding to what we commonly call the mantle; that there are an unspecified number of foundations which range in size all the way from the foundations of the hills and mountains to the usearchable core of the earth and to the very foundation which is the Lord Jesus Christ himself. This is the view of the earth which the Bible presents, not the view of a flat earth on pillars which are, in turn, placed on a foundation. Bible critics are thus shown to be wrong in their view of what the Bible teaches on the matter of the shape of the earth. Also made manifest is their inability or else lack of desire to study firsthand and in detail the teachings of the Bible on this matter in particular, and, by implication, any Biblical matter. Knowing much about the Bible, they know little of the Bible,

LarryBaca commented on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 15:57 PM

I don't know about you guys but someone trying to prove that the Bible is the answer to all things by using quotes from the very same Bible in question is weird logic. In fact it isn't logic at all, is it?
That's like trying to prove the events in Harry Potter are real and not just fantasy, by quoting passages from the book, Harry Potter..

canative62 commented on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 19:26 PM

Using quotes from the Bible to prove that it does not teach the world is FLAT is absolutely logical to those with an open mind..

YET you believe what the evolutionists tell yoou in their books even when there are questions which remain unanswered..
HOW is that any different???

LarryBaca commented on Tuesday, May 29, 2012 at 19:55 PM

When you tried to defend the story from your Bible that said Dinosaurs lived alongside man, you used that very same Bible to prove it. Did you not?

Where does it say in your Bible "The Earth is Round like a ball"? Not some crap like "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers;"
A "Circle" is not a Sphere.


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